Episode 30: An Aboriginal leader in the public sector’s perspective to a growth mindset approach to change with Carlyn Waters
In our milestone thirtieth episode, we are joined by Carlyn Waters, Deputy Chief Executive Officer, and Chief Operating Officer at the Australian Institute of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Studies, as she brings a rare perspective of what it is like to be an Aboriginal person in 2025 and how having cultural traits of resilience, adaptability, curiosity, and humility encapsulate a growth mindset approach to change, and help her, and others, to sit in uncertainty and focus on the bigger purpose beyond just today, recognising that today is only a very small part in a much larger ecosystem.
Over the past seven months, we’ve learned so much from the conversations that we’ve had with our remarkable trailblazers in this podcast series on Thriving in Uncertainty. And indeed, one of the most critical learnings has been the importance of continuing to learn – not only as a key attribute of having a growth mindset approach to change, but also as a distinctive factor in personal and organisational growth, and how learning fosters deeper connections and understanding with others.
In our milestone thirtieth episode, we are joined by Carlyn Waters, Deputy Chief Executive Officer, and Chief Operating Officer at the Australian Institute of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Studies, as she brings a rare perspective of what it is like to be an Aboriginal person in 2025 and how having cultural traits of resilience, adaptability, curiosity, and humility encapsulate a growth mindset approach to change, and help her, and others, to sit in uncertainty and focus on the bigger purpose beyond just today, recognising that today is only a very small part in a much larger ecosystem.
Listen to episode thirty:
Also available on Apple Podcasts and Spotify:
About this episode:
This episode offers a unique perspective of an Aboriginal leader in the public sector and how cultural traits embody a growth mindset approach to change by providing an advantage in the ability to sit in uncertainty, think about the bigger picture beyond today, the importance of learning from others, and how honouring the past also plays a key role in caring for the future.
In a sector where we talk a lot about inclusivity and embracing diverse perspectives and experiences, Carlyn exemplifies what this means in practice as she explains how she has approached traumatic programs of work in her career with a growth mindset and how by thinking about what her ancestors would say and what her descendants would expect of her helped her to stay at the table and try and do the best that she can.
Carlyn talks about the role that social learning plays in continuous development and how this feels natural to her, as in Aboriginal culture, they intrinsically learn from people around them through asking, observing, and listening, and explains how social learning allows everyone differences in thoughts, experiences, cultures, and beliefs to come to the foreground and that this can have an impact in the workplace in a really positive way.
We also discuss the APS value of stewardship and how this resonates culturally with Carlyn, as she shares how, as an Aboriginal person, she is obligated to respect and honour the past, not taking the claims or fame of ancestors and predecessors but looking after and caring for the future. She also talks about the importance of when making decisions, whether that be as a public servant, as a parent, or as a friend, it isn’t just based on today; it is about what future Australians will need and that the decisions will be ones we are proud of and proud to be a part of.
Find out more about this Trailblazer:
Carlyn Waters
Deputy Chief Executive Officer,
Chief Operating Officer
Australian Institute of Aboriginal and
Torres Strait Islander Studies
Carlyn is the Deputy Chief Executive Officer and Chief Operating Officer at Australian Institute of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Studies.
Carlyn is a Kamilaroi woman who has connections to both NSW and Queensland. Her passion has always been ensuring that there are First Nations people in decision making roles within Australia’s organisations. She is known for her ability to identify and grow talented individuals to reach their full potential inside and outside the Australian Public Service.
Carlyn has held senior positions in the Australian Government as well as operates a side hustle as a Managing Director with Cultivate Indigenous. She was a Senior Fellow in the Practice of Business with The Australian University’s College of Business and Economics and volunteers as a director of the Foundation for National Parks and Wildlife as well as a director of the Stars Foundation.
Tune in next week as we speak to a new trailblazer in another episode in our series on Thriving in Uncertainty.
Episode 24: Thriving in Uncertainty with Amanda Cattermole
When our next Trailblazer took up the challenge to take on the role of CEO and lead the Australian Digital Health Agency at the height of the pandemic, she felt that it was a near-impossible place to lead from, considering the limitations of not being able to be in the same physical space as most of the staff. But on reflection, Amanda Cattermole now sees how this has shaped the flexible and hybridised work environment that’s now fundamentally everywhere. In our latest episode, Amanda joins us to talk about taking the path less travelled and leading in uncertainty.
When our next Trailblazer took up the challenge to take on the role of CEO and lead the Australian Digital Health Agency at the height of the pandemic, she felt that it was a near-impossible place to lead from, considering the limitations of not being able to be in the same physical space as most of the staff. But on reflection, Amanda Cattermole now sees how this has shaped the flexible and hybridised work environment that’s now fundamentally everywhere. In our latest episode, Amanda joins us to talk about taking the path less travelled and leading in uncertainty.
Listen to episode twenty-four:
Also available on Apple Podcasts and Spotify:
About this episode:
This episode is a great example of a leader who is passionate about creating an organisational culture that’s focussed on stewardship, built on deep collaboration, and comprised of leaders at every level who add to the culture by enabling stewardship and innovation and creating a convening role with the broader ecosystem.
It also conveys a powerful message of the impact that leaders can have in seeing things and pathways for others that they can't necessarily see for themselves and how, with the right encouragement, it can profoundly impact their career journey in a really positive way.
Even in the midst of the pandemic's uncertainty, Amanda could immediately see that everything had changed in the world of health and digital innovation. The conversation had changed. No longer was the debate around privacy and security, though these were still critically important; it was now about accessing healthcare immediately.
Amanda shares how another important change at that time was that the players in the healthcare ecosystems had to come together in a completely different way, which required radical and immediate collaboration. These fundamental changes saw the introduction of telehealth and electronic prescribing, things that had been spoken about for years, being implemented in six weeks.
As a response to these pivotal changes, the Agency needed to be really different, too. They needed to step into the role of convenors of the system. Leaders needed to have a relational skill set in crafting and amplifying the Agency's role as a steward and deliverer and focus on the organisational culture.
Amanda details this further, diving into the importance of hiring the right people, how every leader at every level needs to contribute something to the collaborative culture of the organisation, and how you can create an environment where the artefacts and daily ways of working exemplify what you have said your organisation is going to be. By creating artefacts that reflect this, you show clarity, which trust is built on.
“Some of the most unexpected ones (jobs) are the ones that I kind of couldn’t have seen if you’d gone back to my earlier self that I wouldn’t have predicted in anyway, have in some ways been the most incredible.”
Having also served as interim CEO of Services Australia during the 2019/2020 bushfire season, you may presume that Amanda has always been one for taking up challenges. Still, as Amanda describes, whilst the sense of making a difference and seeking purpose have been a common thread throughout her career stemming from her childhood and influenced by her parent's deep passion and dedication as public education teachers, it has also come from the privilege of working for leaders who have seen things and pathways for her, that she couldn't see for herself, and who were caring enough to press her in the right ways to take on roles that were seen as riskier.
Through these critical junctures, Amanda has overcome her own uncertainty in taking on roles that seemed unfamiliar to her at the time to realise that her skills aren't bound to the particular area that she worked in. Rather, they are broader and could be applied in different places and in different ways of leading teams during change, nurturing other leaders, and setting and creating positive cultures.
Find out more about this Trailblazer:
Amanda Cattermole
Chief Executive Officer
Australian Digital Health Agency
Ms Amanda Cattermole PSM is the Chief Executive Officer of the Australian Digital Health Agency, a role she commenced in September 2020.
Auspiced by the governments of Australia, the Agency is the steward for digital enablement of Australia’s health system, with a lead role in coordinating national engagement, delivery and adoption of digital health to enable person-centred, connected healthcare.
The Agency also builds national health infrastructure and delivers national digital health products and services that make it easier for healthcare providers and Australian healthcare consumers to access, manage and share health information and that support a sustainable health system delivering safe, high-quality health services for all Australians.
Prior to this Amanda held several senior roles at Services Australia, including interim Chief Executive, Chief Operating Officer, and Deputy Secretary, Health and Aged Care Group, where she was responsible for the delivery of payments and services to Australians under Medicare, the Pharmaceutical Benefits scheme and in the aged care sector.
Amanda has previously held senior roles in Commonwealth departments, including Treasury, the former Families, Housing, Community Services and Indigenous Affairs Department and Prime Minister and Cabinet. She has held senior State government roles in the Victorian Department of Health and Human Services and the Western Australian Department of Indigenous Affairs. In her earlier career Amanda worked as a lawyer in Victoria, the Northern Territory and Western Australia.
Amanda holds a Bachelor of Laws, a Bachelor of Commerce, a Master of Laws and a Master of Business Administration. In 2013, she received the Public Service Medal for outstanding public service leading reform in providing housing for Indigenous people in remote communities and the National Gambling Reform laws.
Tune in next week as we speak to a new trailblazer in another episode in our series on Thriving in Uncertainty.
Trailblazing with CorbettPrice Podcast - Episode 6
Thank you for joining us for the sixth episode of our podcast series on organisational health and the seven dimensions of wellness. In this episode, we will cover the essential topic of organisational purpose and leadership.
Listen to episode six:
Also available through Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Google Podcasts:
The leadership style of an organisation can profoundly impact an organisation's health, affecting the workplace culture, employee experience, engagement, performance, and organisational agility and resilience.
The prolific global expert in open and digital government and former public servant Pia Andrews joins us as we discuss how public sector professionals must lead and navigate their teams now and in the future.
Hear Pia's thoughts on how we need to get back to servant leadership, how any leader's first strategy should be to slow things down, and how human-centered design approaches require you to come from a position of being your best human in the first place.
Listen to also hear Pia share three practices from her background in Gung Fu and Chan Buddhism martial arts that play an important role in her work and career every day.
Download the full transcript of episode six (with references):
Find out more about this Trailblazer:
Pia Andrews is an open government, digital transformation and data geek who has been trying to make the world a better place for 20 years. She usually works within the (public sector) machine to transform public services, policies and culture through greater transparency, democratic engagement, citizen-centric design, open data, emerging technologies and real, pragmatic actual innovation in the public sector and beyond. She believes that tech culture has a huge role to play in achieving better policy planning, outcomes, public engagement and a better public service all round.
She is also trying to do her part in establishing greater public benefit from publicly funded data, software and research. Pia was recognised in 2018 and 2019 as one of the global top 20 most Influential in Digital Government and was awarded as one of the Top 100 Most Influential Women in Australia for 2014. Pia has also studied martial arts since 1990, and brings the philosophies and practices of Gung Fu and Chan Buddhism into her work every day.
Pia is currently taking something of a public sector sabbatical, working as a Strategic Advisor to the Public Sector in AWS. She is in a newly formed team made up of experienced public servants who provide futures oriented policy and outcomes focused advice, support, exploration and experimentation, to agencies and departments across Australia, New Zealand and Oceania.
In 2023, Pia joined Apolitical’s Advisory Council on 21st Century Government, where some of the world’s most distinguished government leaders, innovators, and thinkers have come together to help accelerate Apolitical’s mission to help build 21st century governments that work for people and the planet.
Web: pipka.org
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/pia-andrews/
The Mandarin articles: www.themandarin.com.au/author/pia-waughgmail-com/