Episode 30: An Aboriginal leader in the public sector’s perspective to a growth mindset approach to change with Carlyn Waters
In our milestone thirtieth episode, we are joined by Carlyn Waters, Deputy Chief Executive Officer, and Chief Operating Officer at the Australian Institute of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Studies, as she brings a rare perspective of what it is like to be an Aboriginal person in 2025 and how having cultural traits of resilience, adaptability, curiosity, and humility encapsulate a growth mindset approach to change, and help her, and others, to sit in uncertainty and focus on the bigger purpose beyond just today, recognising that today is only a very small part in a much larger ecosystem.
Over the past seven months, we’ve learned so much from the conversations that we’ve had with our remarkable trailblazers in this podcast series on Thriving in Uncertainty. And indeed, one of the most critical learnings has been the importance of continuing to learn – not only as a key attribute of having a growth mindset approach to change, but also as a distinctive factor in personal and organisational growth, and how learning fosters deeper connections and understanding with others.
In our milestone thirtieth episode, we are joined by Carlyn Waters, Deputy Chief Executive Officer, and Chief Operating Officer at the Australian Institute of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Studies, as she brings a rare perspective of what it is like to be an Aboriginal person in 2025 and how having cultural traits of resilience, adaptability, curiosity, and humility encapsulate a growth mindset approach to change, and help her, and others, to sit in uncertainty and focus on the bigger purpose beyond just today, recognising that today is only a very small part in a much larger ecosystem.
Listen to episode thirty:
Also available on Apple Podcasts and Spotify:
About this episode:
This episode offers a unique perspective of an Aboriginal leader in the public sector and how cultural traits embody a growth mindset approach to change by providing an advantage in the ability to sit in uncertainty, think about the bigger picture beyond today, the importance of learning from others, and how honouring the past also plays a key role in caring for the future.
In a sector where we talk a lot about inclusivity and embracing diverse perspectives and experiences, Carlyn exemplifies what this means in practice as she explains how she has approached traumatic programs of work in her career with a growth mindset and how by thinking about what her ancestors would say and what her descendants would expect of her helped her to stay at the table and try and do the best that she can.
Carlyn talks about the role that social learning plays in continuous development and how this feels natural to her, as in Aboriginal culture, they intrinsically learn from people around them through asking, observing, and listening, and explains how social learning allows everyone differences in thoughts, experiences, cultures, and beliefs to come to the foreground and that this can have an impact in the workplace in a really positive way.
We also discuss the APS value of stewardship and how this resonates culturally with Carlyn, as she shares how, as an Aboriginal person, she is obligated to respect and honour the past, not taking the claims or fame of ancestors and predecessors but looking after and caring for the future. She also talks about the importance of when making decisions, whether that be as a public servant, as a parent, or as a friend, it isn’t just based on today; it is about what future Australians will need and that the decisions will be ones we are proud of and proud to be a part of.
Find out more about this Trailblazer:
Carlyn Waters
Deputy Chief Executive Officer,
Chief Operating Officer
Australian Institute of Aboriginal and
Torres Strait Islander Studies
Carlyn is the Deputy Chief Executive Officer and Chief Operating Officer at Australian Institute of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Studies.
Carlyn is a Kamilaroi woman who has connections to both NSW and Queensland. Her passion has always been ensuring that there are First Nations people in decision making roles within Australia’s organisations. She is known for her ability to identify and grow talented individuals to reach their full potential inside and outside the Australian Public Service.
Carlyn has held senior positions in the Australian Government as well as operates a side hustle as a Managing Director with Cultivate Indigenous. She was a Senior Fellow in the Practice of Business with The Australian University’s College of Business and Economics and volunteers as a director of the Foundation for National Parks and Wildlife as well as a director of the Stars Foundation.
Tune in next week as we speak to a new trailblazer in another episode in our series on Thriving in Uncertainty.
Thriving in Uncertainty with Samantha Palmer
We know that there are many modes of learning. One that has been spoken about in recent episodes as critically important is on-the-job learning and how, knowledge sharing between peers, even from different areas of an organisation, can help fuel new ideas and ways of working. Another important learning and development opportunity in the APS is mobility. In our latest episode, Sam Palmer joins us to discuss this and so much more on the topic of learning organisations. Sam is Secretary and a Fellow of IPAA and currently serves as APS reviewer on the independent capability review of the Commonwealth Department of Education on secondment from Austrade.
We know that there are many modes of learning. One that has been spoken about in recent episodes as critically important is on-the-job learning and how, knowledge sharing between peers, even from different areas of an organisation, can help fuel new ideas and ways of working.
Another important learning and development opportunity in the APS is mobility. In our latest episode, Sam Palmer joins us to discuss this and so much more on the topic of learning organisations. Sam is Secretary and a Fellow of IPAA and currently serves as APS reviewer on the independent capability review of the Commonwealth Department of Education on secondment from Austrade.
Listen to episode sixteen:
Also available through Apple Podcasts and Spotify:
Sam has over 35 years of diverse experience, with 25 years of those in senior executive service roles in the APS. She is a passionate advocate for having variety in your working career and how, from her personal experience, moving sideways into different roles and taking on new experiences through mobility opportunities has assisted her in seeing things from a different framing or mindset.
Sam provides excellent examples from throughout her career of how experiencing different contexts in departments has helped her transfer her learnings into other roles and how, in Austrade today, they also benefit from bringing in various people from other parts of the organisation into their division to give new insights and skills when Sam and her colleagues are acting in other positions.
In our discussion, Sam reflects on how championing diversity and inclusion has been one of the most rewarding parts of her career, and we also talk about the relationship between change and learning as Sam shares her time at the Australian Bureau of Statistics and involvement in the marriage equality survey and how the short turnaround time of just 99 days required the department to work with a different momentum and process to make it happen while also maintaining procurement requirements.
Another powerful part of our conversation is the role mentors and champions play in professional development. Sam shares a great metaphor of champions being like elephants: They have big ears to listen, big trunks to communicate and talk, big feet and bodies to make a path through barriers, and a caring nature that they work with heart. If you're thinking about taking on a new or different opportunity or how, as a leader, you can help your staff grow and develop, this is definitely an episode that you won't want to miss.
References from this episode:
APS Charter of Engagement and Partnerships including link to good practice guide
Report on the conduct of the Australian Marriage Law Postal Survey
Paper on measuring culture and leadership at the ABS during transformation
Find out more about this Trailblazer:
Samantha Palmer
General Manager
Visitor Economy and Client Programs Division
Australian Trade and Investment Commission (Austrade)
Samantha Palmer is temporarily seconded from her position as General Manager of Austrade’s Visitor Economy and Client Programs Division to work with the Australian Public Service Commission as a Senior APS Reviewer on the Capability Review of the Australian Government Department of Education. She is also a Diversity and Inclusion Champion.
Samantha brings 35-plus years of diverse experience with more than 25 in senior executive service roles. She has led policy, programs and corporate transformations in the Queensland, WA and Commonwealth governments in many areas relevant to the visitor economy. These areas include fair trading and consumer protection, environmental protection and national parks, land transport and road safety, housing, disability, and Indigenous communities. She has also run businesses and worked in the arts, university and community sectors.
Career highlights include achieving a 79.5% response rate for the Australian Marriage Law Postal Survey; leading the development of the 10-year Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Health Plan policy framework; and being appointed the ‘cleanskin’ inaugural Deputy Director General Governance, Integrity and Reform following Australia’s largest public service corruption incident at the WA Communities Department.
Samantha is a National Fellow of the Institute of Public Administration Australia (IPAA). She was one of the 2013 Australian Financial Review/Westpac 100 Women of Influence, and the 2013 Australian Human Resource Institute Diversity Champion of the Year (HR).
Samantha was elected Secretary of the National Institute of Public Administration Australia (the professional body for public servants) in 2024 having served on both National and ACT IPAA Councils for some time. She has a Master of Public Administration and a Bachelor of Business (Communication).
Tune in next time as we speak to a new trailblazer in another episode in our series on Thriving in Uncertainty.
Embracing organisational change – episode three
Welcome back to another episode in our series on embracing organisational change.
Today in our third episode, we cover the critical change that all workplaces must progress and move forward on, and that change is realising diversity, equity, and inclusion aspirations.
Listen to episode three:
Also available through Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Google Podcasts:
What does it take for organisations to create an inclusive workplace where staff feels valued, safe to contribute, and to be their authentic selves? Has progress been made in the public sector, and how can all leaders acknowledge and act accordingly to close the gaps with their employees, especially those from diversity groups? Please tune in to hear Julie Etchells, Chief Human Resources Officer at the Department of Child Safety, Seniors, and Disability Services for the Queensland Government, provide her valuable perspectives based on her experiences working for the Queensland public sector over the past twenty-four years.
Download the full transcript of episode three:
Find out more about this Trailblazer:
Ms Julie Etchells (pronouns are she/her/hers) is a long-term public servant, out lesbian, person with a disability, and mother to two beautiful human beings who are now adults, starting their own families.
Julie has dedicated 24 years to serving the Queensland Public as a public servant. Julie’s career has developed through her time predominately in service delivery and through time in state-wide services. Julie wears many hats and since 1999 has undertaken multiple service delivery, practitioner, leadership, and Senior Executive roles. Julie is currently utilising her leadership skills in the Chief Human Resources Officer role which highlights her diversity as a leader and commitment to supporting staff to ensure they have what they need to deliver services to children and families.
Julie’s extensive knowledge of service delivery, her passion for leadership and care for people combined with an interest in strategy, partnering, and diversity enables her to positively influence desired outcomes. Julie’s leadership, commitment and dedication to Queensland communities was officially acknowledged when she was awarded the 2020 Public Service Medal for her leadership and outstanding public service to children and families in Queensland.
Julie’s ongoing career aspiration is to “Make it Count”. That is, whatever role she is in, she acknowledges her privilege and makes the most of the opportunity for those she is there to serve. This includes her role as an out public servant modelling the way and showing others “it is okay to be who you are; in fact, it is brilliant – we need you to be you” and we are richer for it.